Transcript of “Clues Everywhere” for a Major Uranium Breakout

Hello everyone. Welcome to VRIC Media, your most trusted voice in metals and mining. I'm your host Daryl Thomas and today we have the pleasure of sitting with Justin Hune of the Uranium Insider. What's going on Justin? Good to see you again Darl. Yeah, there's a lot going on. There shouldn't be. It's the summertime. We're supposed to all be on vacation, but there's a lot moving and shaking in this market right now, which is very, very interesting. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh so there was some recent news that came out about uh Korea and it had something to do with the term market and the supply of uranium pounds and so just want to get your pulse on that that news that just came out. Sure. Yeah. So we're recording this Friday. It was 2 days ago. Korea Hydronuclear Power, the large nuclear utility in South Korea, issued a a public tender for 8.8 8 million pounds of uranium delivered over a period of 10 years starting in 2027. And this is a pretty large tender. It's not historically gigantic, but it's it's one of the larger ones that we've seen. By far the largest we've seen all year. Year to date, we've only seen 30 million pounds procured or secured, I should say, in the long-term contracting market, which is um a a a fraction of what is that 25% of replacement rate. It's it's a very very slow year so far in the term contracting market. But the Koreans do something very interesting when they issue their public tenders. So typically an RFP will come out from a nuclear utility that will say we want this many pounds delivered over this period of time. Give us your offers. And what the Koreans do is they say we want this many pounds delivered over this period of time. Here are our terms. And while while they allow for some flexibility in the offers or the responses to this tender, what they dictated 2027 to 2036 delivery, £880,000 per year up to that's the maximum. They'll take a smaller amount, but that's that's ideally what they would like to procure is um 70% reference to the market at the time of delivery, which is a six-month average of the spot price before that delivery time frame. So 70% market reference floors maximum of $65 a pound ceilings maximum of $101 a pound with 30% fixed. Now it didn't look like they put a a ceiling price on what they would expect for the fixed portion of the contract. So potentially the fixed portion of the contract could be ne negotiated significantly higher, but that's not typically how it works. Usually the fixed portion of the contract is somewhere very close to the published fixed price of uranium or the published long-term price of uranium. So if you're going to sign a fixed price base escalated contract right now, it's going to be somewhere in the 80s. Um so for them to do 80sish fixed and then for 30% of the contract, 70% market reference, that's just not going to work with fixed in the 80s and uh floor is maxing at 65. So to give you some frame of reference, what Kamo has been saying for the last year in their conference calls really is that what we are signing and what we are willing to sign in this environment right now is mostly if not entirely reference to the market contracts that are floors in the 70s and ceilings into the 120s or 130s. And that's Kamo. They are the biggest 100% um publicly traded um uranium producer in the on the planet, right? So there's other, you know, stateowned Orano uranium one because Adam majority stateowned, but Camo is kind of kind of the the elephant in the room. Really quick, uh so uh just just to make sure I'm I'm picking up what you're putting down. Yeah. So uh for the audience that may not be as uh sophisticated in in this sector, RFP means a request for proposal, right? And so uh so Korea is saying hey they want proposals for um their con what they need is 8.8 million pounds over a what is it like a 10-year period. Yep. And so their floor is $65 which means that um even if uranium failed to to 50 whoever gets the contract would be able to sell it at 65 but then they cap it at 10 to1. So, uh, if we're looking at the supply demand gap and all of the other bullish dynamics around, uh, uranium, that cap is going to restrict whoever whoever receives this this contract from being able to sell it at a higher price if it and you're saying that Kamico has a ceiling of in the 120s. Yes, that's that's what they've told the market is that the the what they want and what they have signed at least in the recent past is ceilings. market reference contracts with ceilings, 120s, 130s, 120s, 130s. Yeah. So, so yeah, you're absolutely right. The floors protect the producer, the ceilings protect the utility essentially. So, if the price shoots to $200, they will only pay a maximum of $101, assuming that this contract were filled at those terms. Um, but the interesting thing is that the the floor price that they're saying that they want to maximum 65 is below the market currently. and you've got you've got the last delivery 11 years from today. So that's an enormous amount of time, a lot of uncertainty obviously to go that far out into the future. So for a producer, especially like Camo, right? So they they're signing 70s, 130s, let's say market reference, you know, their cost of production is probably in the high 40s per pound, maybe even low 50s. we go 11 years out the cost of their production. And there aren't escalators, by the way, in these floors and ceilings. So, as with a fixed price, you'll typically have an escalator that's based around um current interest rates or expected inflation rates, right? There's no escalators in these. So, 65 to 65, 11 years from now. Take into account average inflation. And by the time you're delivering those pounds, if the market were to have collapsed and Camo was delivering on that contract, they would be potentially delivering for those delivering those pounds at a lower price than what their production cost would be. And Kamo, by the way, while they have reasonably low production cost, they also have a large mine, Cigar Lake, that is set to come offline before the end of this contract term. And so they are going to need and want to have something else in the pipeline at that point. What that is, we don't know, but likely they're going to have to continue to to build and develop mines to keep the production in the pipeline as these legacy large mines come offline. So all of that is to say this contract appears to the industry at least to us and the people that we've communicated with in the last couple days concerning the metrics the terms in this contract to be largely in the dark as to what the actual terms are in the industry right now. We don't think this is going to get filled on their terms. And to give you a little bit of historical context really quickly, this is this is unique how the Koreans do this. Nobody else does it like this. Um, most of the contracts in the term market are negotiated offmarket. The RFPs typically come out to kind of test the market. So, right now we have multiple RFPs that are smaller from large US utilities. That to us seems like these large US utilities are sort of testing the market. They're testing the depth. They're testing the price range and what what they're going to come back, who's going to come back and what sort of price offers will they have for those RFPs. But the Koreans, they did something similar in 2023. And they do this almost every year, mid Q3, usually it's September, they come in with a tender. They did this in 2023. Similar type of terms, right? It was it was lower back then, but similar as far as how it how it was relative to the market pricing at the time. And they went no bid. It was 50% market, 50% fixed. They had their terms. Nobody offered them pounds. Nobody came to to the rescue on that. That contract went no bid. What we heard was that they eventually did sign a U308 contract, but not until the first half of 2024. They did it off market. They pulled that that tender cuz nobody responded to it. And we think the same thing is going to happen here. I these terms are um completely not aligned with where the market is right now. And so what this means really to the uranium investor is two things. one, they came out with this tender earlier than they usually do. Um, two, they didn't sign any contracts besides potentially that smaller one that was following the no bid tender last year for uranium. They procured more conversion and enrichment. They have more uranium buying to do on top of this current tender. Three, if this goes no bid, it's going to be another obvious signal to the market, other utilities, other fuel buyers that are going to see, oh, the Koreans are coming here in size. These are the terms they want. Nobody is showing up to give them those terms. Okay, now I know what I have to do, which is you got to give Kamiko what they want essentially. And this this tender back in 2023, the similar tender in 2023 was one of a few elements that largely in our estimation led to the price move that we saw Q3 Q4 23 into January, February 24. So we believe this is setting us up for a very very strong seasonal period. We have a lot of term market activity right now for the time of the year. Have we seen a more active term market? Yes, we have. but it's been dead this year and now things are starting to move and shake in the term market which is anomalous for August. Usually this is not happening right now at this time of the year. So we think that's a tell. Got it. Okay. So just for just for context, so this type of um RFP requesting over 8 million pounds um obviously Kamico could fulfill that request. Um, how many other I mean I'm sure Kazadam Prom um how many other like miners could and producers could actually fulfill this type of uh contract. So for almost a million pounds per year, the the players that would be willing to fill that would probably be Kamako, Arono, like potentially willing. Kamako, Orano, Uranium 1, Kazadam Prom, Paladin. That's probably it. Maybe there's a trader with a sufficient offtake, but probably not. Maybe BHP, but BHP usually doesn't go out that far. BHP usually sells into spot or they sell shorter and midterm spot referenced contracts. So, um you know, you can count on one hand who might respond to this or who potentially could fulfill even demand of this size. And this historically speaking, Darl, is not a huge contract. Like, we're going to see some contracts that are going to be signed. We're going to see some RFPs out there for two 3 million pounds a year, potentially even more for long periods of time. And and that's what we think is coming. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for for that context. And so could this be a uh trends setter for any other utility companies within the within the u within the market? I mean, you know, it sounds like, you know, they're trying to come in and negotiate, you know, and try to make the negotiation seem appealing, but then also cap their cost. Um, do you see other utilities attempting to do something like this? Yeah, I think um, probably not exactly like this. I think more than a trends setter, it'll probably be a wakeup call. And what essentially we're we're going to have to see and what we're going to see is nuclear fuel buyers and nuclear fuel buyer managers are going to recognize that despite the fact that barely any volume has been traded this year, we're still at a stagnant 80 $82 a pound in the long-term price. in that utility activity stepping largely out of the market in the term market for the last 12 to 14 months hasn't resulted in a collapse of the price. So basically what that means is that they're going to have to approve within the budgets of the utility to procure uranium at the price that the market is demanding. And that's kind of the next step. And for the Koreans to come out with this tender, assuming it goes no bid or if they negotiate it off market at a higher price and that gets out into the ethers, then you're going to see an example. And anytime there's an actual example in the market of a large contract being signed by the players that the utilities want to engage with at a price that they have yet to accept, it's going to be a reference point for them to move forward. And and that's that's pretty that's probably the most important element of this of this tender. Okay. Got it. Okay. And then um so obviously this this has to do with the the term price and then we have uh spot price. So uh what what are you seeing on the spot price uh front uh for uranium? Spot price right now let's see 72 just traded going for September for front month £100,000. So that's where we're at in the spot market. It's about $8 below term. It's right kind of on the cusp of carry trades getting done. So you can do probably some smaller volume carry trades if the utility is willing to pay let's say mid80s for 2 3 4 years out. You can buy in spot and probably have enough profit margin for a trader. Um but the carry trade is what is keeping a floor in spot. basically meaning there's sufficient utility demand in the midterm that when the price does get down to 7071 you see action there you see the traders buy up that uranium and so that's that's where the spot price is at the floor we think is in for spot I mean the only thing that I think would cause a wash out here in spot would be some kind of market crash broader broader market crash speaking equities going extremely risk off I don't know if that's going to happen I'm not expecting that to happen. The S&P just continues to climb a wall of worry. Could something pull the rug out of the market? Sure. Are we going to see the spot price crash below the price that it was late March, early April? No. No. We'll we'll see a higher low if it goes lower from here, but I don't think it will, Darl, because we're so close not only to the WNA conference in a few weeks, but just the seasonal strong period, utilities getting new budgets, utilities showing up at this conference, talking with producers, and getting a feeling on where the market is at. Then they get budget approvals and and they come into the market, they buy what they need to buy. So I think we're on the cusp of that which is why I don't think the spot price is going to fall here. I think sput is an unbelievable riskreward opportunity right now. And yeah, it's going higher. I don't think it's going to go much lower if at all. Higher is where it's going to go. I can't tell you if it's going to happen tomorrow, next week or next month, but it's going to happen soon. We've got three of the best porefree copper targets that I've seen in the past 25 years of exploring for pfries. Visa copper. We're the team that brought you successes including ISO Energy and Visa Silver. We've put our foot on two outstanding projects in central British Columbia with copper and gold and some malibdinum in there. Our Popular South project, we're drilling there at the moment and I think we're on the verge of a major discovery. If you want to learn more, you can find us at visa copper.com. So, I I want to transition to the actual equities. Um, we had liberation day. Equity sold off significantly. Um, I went in buying. I'm sure you probably went in buying, too. Very aggressive. I don't feel I was aggressive enough, but um, you know, I've been able to lower my um, average cost and take some profits as well. Um, so we we got this kind of disconnect. Uh, so we have the bigs. Uh chemical has been ripping uh continuously ripping. Yeah. Um then we got nuclear stocks continuously ripping uh stocks like Olo um some of the other ones uh you know SMR and and some other the nuclear ETF that's been ripping too. So we got quite a few nuclear stocks ripping. Uh you got Centress Energy ripping. Um, you and I talked about that. I took a short trade on that. I sold a little too early, but um, I profited at the end of the day, so I'm trying to, um, just move on from that from that trade. Nobody ever went broke taking profits. Yeah. And then uh but when you look at like Sput for example, I mean Sput's still pretty pretty cheap compared to like I mean I think a couple years ago it was trading at like 35 36 Canadian something around that range and um now it's trading at 22 Canadian. I think it's low was about 17 or 18 Canadian some somewhere around that range. Uh you got URN M UR A and URNJ. uh all ETFs of uh basket of miners uh these are not performing well at all. Um I mean they're performing okay but URJ is definitely not um not making much noise at all. Um so what do you make of this kind of disconnect in the performance of of these equities? is is this institutions buying the bigs and buying the the most um brilliant names, you know, what is retail doing? Uh what's your assessment of this? So, there's there's there's a lot of nuance to all of this, but what I can say, um okay, let's just get into it. Kamico is an acrosstheboard stock. It's a one one-stop shop for exposure to uranium and nuclear. So they essentially have vertical integration across the fuel cycle. They are uranium miners. They have conversion at for Port Hope and potentially at Springfields again in the UK through Westinghouse. They have exposure to enrichment not yet, but they will for with their um ownership of GLE, their partial ownership of GLE. I in our estimation they're highly likely to increase that ownership in as they are allowed to do to 70%. probably after they secured DOE funding. Then they have fuel fabrication through Westinghouse and they have the actual reactor buildouts through Westinghouse. It's a one-stop shop and it's an institutional darling and it's been the vast outperformer. It also is the largest element to explain the outperformance of URRA because URA 24% of URRA is Camo. Y and that conversely explains the underperformance of URJ which intentionally does not hold Kamo. It's focused on the smaller cap minor. So it doesn't hold Camo or Kazatom and or sput. So that's why it's underperformed. And it's important to keep in mind uranium is actually down year to date. So the spot price of uranium is down year to date. And there's a handful of uranium miners that are pure play miners that are up significantly this year even with this with a spot price slightly down. The uranium equities are going to move to speak very generous generally with the price of the commodity. And so it's not lock step and there's plenty of historical evidence of that minor moving when the price is flat moving up or down without um the the uranium price actually moving or moving opposite the price. It happens, but on a long enough time frame, generally speaking, and it makes sense that they would, the miners move with the metal. So, in our estimation, the contrarian bet here is on the uranium miners because when the price moves, the money is going to come in there. As far as the nuclear stocks, there's been a lot of nuclear headlines that have nothing to do with the price of the commodity that have been moving those stocks. But also, the SMR names that you mentioned, the nuclear builder names that you mentioned have just become memes. um Centress, they these have become meme stocks. These are not institutional darlings. These are go ahead and look up the ticker on on X and see what you find for those for those three stocks. All it's going to be is Wall Street bets types pumping and and technicals. Um so it's and to your point, you said you sold too early on Centress. It's hard to know how long to hold a stock that was overvalued 50% below where it is now. So these they basically become memes and have outperformed for that reason. Kamico has outperformed because it's Kamo. It's the one-stop shop nuclear and uranium mining stock and it deserves to be in my estimation the industry bellweather. So sput also trading at a slight discount here but the spot price hasn't really moved yet. And when it does it's going to move very very hard and that what is what we think is coming next. That's why we think it's a strong bet here on the uranium miners. Will we see money rotate out of the nuclear stocks into uranium? That's possible. But you know the the nuclear story is also very very strong here regardless of what uranium is doing. And yes, they are linked, but they're linked on a long time frame. All of the positive nuclear stuff that has happened in the last 2 years, it derisks the fleet. It will incentivize the growth of new nuclear builds, but the pull on the actual fuel takes some time. And that's that's it's like the the tail of the whip takes a while for it to to hit, but when it does, it just really hits. And and that's that's what we have in front of us. Mhm. Got it. Okay. Thank Thank you for breaking that down. That's very helpful to understand. Uh so uh I don't think I don't think we've spoke since uh the executive order was signed um regarding nuclear energy and particularly in the United States. um what's happening on that front? Um so obviously uh enrichment a lot of enrichment was coming from Russia enriched uranium and then now there's efforts being made to kind of onshore some of that or uh or find new partners to to trade with regarding enriched uranium and then um what does it look like for infrastructure for the US? I think I saw an article recently where New York is trying to put put together a um a a power plant. Uh so I'm like, okay, is that is that something that's new? And should we be surprised? Is that more of a sentiment change or what's your take there? Well, New York considering building new nuclear is definitely a sentiment change because they just shut down Indian Point a few years ago, which was a perfectly functional reactor kind of just north of New York City. So, um, yeah, there's definitely been a sentiment change. There's certainly a lot of support from the federal government currently. Um, there's been a lot of reforms at the NRC, some for better or for worse. It's certainly looking like timelines are accelerating at the NRC, but there's there's a little bit of concern there that the reforms that are happening at the NRC could potentially lead to um NOS's and certain other, you know, environmental advocate nonprofits throwing sand in the gears more easily to building new nuclear. So, that remains to be seen. But what we're seeing right now is a is a uh the head of the Department of Energy, Christopher Wright, he's just absolutely banging the table on building nuclear. I mean, he posted a few days ago that that growing nuclear in the United States is his number one priority. This is the Secretary of Energy for the country. So, it's it looks very very positive. We know that the Trump administration and the Department of Energy are very focused on expanding electricity production in the country as quickly as possible. to and doing so with base load power. So, they're expanding gas. They're they're keeping some coal plants even online longer than they were supposed to be. Expanding gas and expanding nuclear and and new builds are coming in this country. They have not been officially announced yet and they will be. So, that's what's coming. I don't know if that's happening this year, but it's probably going to happen very very soon. As far as the states getting interested, it's it's a recognition of a supportive administration, but at the same time, it's also just states wanting to attract industry and making sure that they have a sufficient grid to support their own local state economies and the growth of the electricity demand in those states. So, we've seen Texas um going looking at building a huge data center campus and powering that at least partially with nuclear. We saw just yesterday, the day before that the Denver International Airport is looking at building an SMR to power the airport. Um, you mentioned New York, uh, New York State looking at building new advanced reactors. I mean, the list goes on. There's dozens. There's probably a couple dozen states that are that are looking into building new nuclear, whether that's a large AP 10000 or a small modular reactor. It's it's it's very very it's expanding very quickly as far as the interest in building new nuclear here in the States. Yeah. Yeah, and that's one thing I can appreciate about President Trump is um you know the reduction of the red tape around this this particular uh commodity and um form of energy cuz we we do need a base load uh clean energy. I mean and this is this is that this is the answer, right? And so uh just him coming in and being supportive of that. obviously the um director of the the department of energy being supportive of that like I can appreciate that I have my criticism about him but I want to be objective as possible and and that's something that I really appreciate um so thinking about the okay so we have um things happening in the US where um where you know infrastructure is being built and uh production and around enrichment and such. Where do you see things going from here? Um I mean obviously we still have the supply demand gap and uh I think we you and I we did like a deep dive on our uh on an interview on on my channel and and we talked about Kazaden Prime not being able to keep up with the um amount of demand that's going to be coming. Uh we have the AI data centers that are um that are still uh talked about in a lot of headlines around. Um I think uh Google recently um invested some money into uh the grids u looking to invest uh billions into the grids which I mean a lot of this have to do with updating the grids and and ensuring that we can even live in this more energy intensive uh world. And so what's your overall outlook as far as like the supply demand and with all these different factors at play? My overall outlook is that the supply and demand picture still looks concerning on the supply side. the the market right now um we've gone from over the previous decade until maybe the last couple of years and obviously going forward the last the previous decade I mean to be completely honest the previous decades have been driven by u you know over supply we've had an over supply of uranium and we've had enormous amounts of secondary supply that have enabled utilities to procure uranium relatively easily relatively cheaply with very few exceptions one of those was a 2-year period, you know, 05 to07 where the price went on a moonshot and that was largely driven by financials. Um, we had actually an overs supplied or sufficiently supplied market at the time. It was just a financially driven speculative move and at the time also we had all commodities going absolutely crazy right before the GFC crash. So, but we had, you know, megat tons to megawatt, 20 million pounds a year for 20 years from um 93 to 2013. Secondary supply from Russian down blending that ended, you know, 12 years ago. Secondary supply from underfeeding has significantly dropped off. This is an overabundance or and or a lack of demand for enrichment. And the enrichers can spin very low tails and supply into the market. um they can underfeed the market and that was you know almost 30 million pounds going back five six years and right now it's maybe 10 you know between 10 and 15 million pounds that's been chopped in half so secondary supplies are insufficient there is no longer a large overhang of above ground mobile inventory from the over supply of the previous decade especially after Fukushima Kazakhstan kept producing hot more and more and more every year demand was coming down at the same time major overs supplied market the inventory overhang isn't there anymore. So right now and as far out as you look into the future, the demands of the industry are going to have to rely on production to fulfill their needs. So no longer are you going to see traders working through inventories. You're not going to see governments down blending and selling material cuz those stock piles aren't there anymore. It's going to have to come out of the ground. And some of it is going to come out of the ground. Okay, it's that we're seeing projects come online. We're seeing the industry move towards increases of production cuz Adam is going to going to be able to increase production by a few million pounds a year as far as we can tell. Are they going to be able to hit 80 million pounds a year? Highly highly unlikely. Um they also have projects in decline and so they're going to need to have to establish new projects at the same time just to maintain name plate. Um, we're seeing smaller stuff get developed in the United States. We'll get to a few million pounds a year in the next couple of years. Big projects like NextGen's Arrow, that's really kind of a lynch pin. You will they be able to to develop that and do it fast enough to supply the market and maybe get close to balancing the supply and demand for a point in time before it again blows out. And and that's the big question, right? So any more delays in that project are going to lead to somewhat of shocks to the industry and responses in the price of uranium. So if I had to sum it up, what I would say is that the nuclear story continues to grow. It's very very positive. It continues to derisk the existing fleet of nuclear plants globally. Yes, we're still going to see shutdowns, but they're going to slow down. We're going to see a lot more life extensions than we expected. And the supply side is relatively easy to model out because there's only a few dozen projects that are producing and there's only a couple of dozen that could even get developed. And you can see those very easily on a spreadsheet and move them around and what you come up with is is a pretty stark picture of what we're seeing here on the supply side relative to the incredible robust demand growth. And then the the AI data center story is is mainly a derisking event. It's the demand for electricity is going to be so strong that prices are going to rise. That's good for the utilities. That aids the utilities in making that final decision to pay up for uranium. The prices that the producers are demanding that they're not really all that happy about right now. They're going to have to they're not going to have an option. So the growth of electricity is just a very very good for the nuclear story. And as nuclear continues to grow, it's incredibly positive for the fuel. And the fuel is really that like the tail of the whip, this is going to continue to move, generally speaking, up and to the right. We'll have plenty of periods of volatility, but the price is going to keep going higher, period. Got it. Yeah, that's that's that's super bullish. Uh so um mergers and acquisitions uh we had Paladin um acquire Fision and typically I've been kind of keeping an eye on that like okay is this a sign of of you know um more more revenue and you know more bullish sentiment and such and so that's the only acquisition that that that I that I'm aware of. Do you foresee more mergers and acquisitions down the line? Definitely. Yeah, I think that the I think that the sector needs to consolidate here. And the primary reason for that is that there's only so many skilled operators. There's only so many people that know how to build mines. And we're going to need to see more mine development in order to actually have an industry. We're going to have to see the uranium, the uranium producers of the world produce more than 200 million pounds a year. And right now we're at 165 million with negligible secondary supply and insufficient inventory to buffer any any shocks. And and so yes, I think we're going to see some M&A. I think that we need to see some M&A. I think there should be some larger acquisitions for these larger projects. Um knock on wood. Uh but with all of that said, you know, the fact that the industry is relying on production kind of for the first time in modern history, we don't need to know what the shock will be to the industry. All we need to know is that the conditions are there for something to disrupt it and the conditions are there. There will be disruptions to supply and because of the reliance on new supply that the industry has now and the lack of an inventory buffer or a secondary supply buffer, anytime we have any sort of disruption on the supply side, it's going to reverberate throughout throughout the industry and throughout the sector. So that's what we're expecting. As far as M&A goes, like I said, you can count on both hands the number of people probably globally that are super super skilled at building complex mines, especially for uranium. And um so yes, I would like to see more consolidation and I think that I think that we will as we as things get more and more serious on the mind development front and companies actually have to take their project and do something with it and that's slowly slowly happening. Got it. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. So, uh, Justin, appreciate you coming on the show and everything. Um, anything else you want to share with the audience before we before we wrap up? Hey, that's my pleasure. Um, no, I would just say keep your eye on the physical market. It's there's the clues are there and the fact that we're seeing a fair amount of activity in the term market in August is is a very big tell for us. So, we're we're excited about what's coming in in the very near future. Yes. Yes. Agreed. And so everyone, be sure to go check out uraniumsider.com. Also, subscribe to the channel if you have not yet as we will be continuously putting out more content and we love to have your support at VRIC Media. I'm your host, Daryl Thomas. Thank you, Justin, for joining us today. Always a pleasure, Darl. Thanks for ram me.